Free Plot Bunnies to a good home (or free meat?)

[SquirrelyRequiem]

Not only is Naruto -not- a spark, he's an occasional power source for her chakra powered creations! Seeing as Hinata is a spark, she could naturally see the limitless potential in having a living batter and chakra well for a friend.

[Chuckg]

And I love the idea of Madgirl Hinata. There is a fic that has both Naruto and Hinata as inventive geniuses that were fighting each other in tunnels under Konoha. I just can't remember the name at the moment.

The Genius Losers of Konoha, by 'Stigma'.

[jgkitarel]

Oh man, that is a good one.

I'm gonna have to go back and read it again.

'scuse me.

[doc.exe]

Not only is Naruto -not- a spark, he's an occasional power source for her chakra powered creations! Seeing as Hinata is a spark, she could naturally see the limitless potential in having a living batter and chakra well for a friend.

That could lead to many amusing situations.

I haven't read that comic, but you guys are making me incredibly curious about it.

How's this for a different spin on that idea? Some of the fics have Shinji being raised by a teacher instead of an uncle (translation error?). What if that teacher's name, happened to be Onizuka? And when Shinji leaves, he decides that if anyone's gonna oversee his little bro's education in Tokyo-3, it's gonna be him!

I bow to you and to the greatness of that idea. Onizuka solves his problems with violence. Shinji would have done well to take the same tack.

First meeting with Gendo:
"So, you're Shinji's old man eh?"
"Yes, wh-" *KA-KRUNCH*
*Onizuka steps back, rubbing his bloody knuckles. The blood ain't his*
"That was fer abandoning the kid in hte first place. I'll pay you out the rest of what I'm sure you deserve over the rest of the school year."

And can you imagine how he'd handle both Asuka's attacking the boys during school, and Rei's introvertedness?

Quoting Charles Bhepin, "Gendo, there is no word in the human languages for how thoroughly, inescapably screwed you are..."

That's a fanfiction I would defintely like to read.

BTW, wasn't there already a crossover between GTO and Naruto?

[AntiNaba]

Konoha is invaded by shooty, choppy, stompy orks of the future.

The mind boggles.

[Darkandus]

It's been done Anti. I don't recall the name but if you do a search you'll find it.

[Thozmp]

How about Konoha invaded by Oompa Loompas?

[SLAMU]

I haven't read that comic, but you guys are making me incredibly curious about it.

"Mad Scientists rule the world. Badly."

Go ahead, it shouldn't take more than a day or three of reading, depending on things like internet connection, need for food, and a life.

Does anyone have a link to the Konoha and Da Orks(!) fic?

[Chuckg]

My own review of 'Girl Genius' is that while its an amazing story, the main character the author apparently wants me to root for? I find growing more and more unsympathetic as the plot advances further and further on, to the point where I don't even remotely like her anymore, and have enormously more admiration for certain of the more ethical antagonists.

So, fair warning, there is the possibility that by getting emotionally invested in this story, you will end up heartbroken. (Then again, many people entirely enjoy the story's current direction, unlike myself, is why I say 'possibility'. The spoiler block contains reasons as to why.)

Spoiler: show

Basically, the further the story goes on, the more our designated heroine becomes the only person in the entire saga to enjoy anything remotely resembling the sweet sweet taste of success, almost entirely at the expense of the aforementioned more ethical antagonist, i.e., Klaus von Wulfenbach, and (most galling of all) /not/ at the primary expense of the actual bloody villains of the piece, i.e., the Other and her minions.

Or, to put it more simply, if you have any sympathy at all for Baron Wulfenbach, this story is going to totally jump the shark right about the time the upgraded slaver wasp hits his trachea. Indeed, the forces of malignant coincidence are abused to literally ridiculous levels to explain why the forces of Wulfenbach are entirely neutralized from actually handling the bloody situation before it starts to get out of hand, and why its all up to Team Heterodyne and their continued reliance on... well, expecting the next plot coupon to drop into their laps, apparently. Look, if you want Agatha to be the main hero of your piece, that's entirely fine... but could you please do a slightly less obnoxious job of explaining why the rest of the available hero supply isn't available, instead of simply abusing the writer's fiat so hard that it had to withdraw to the washroom for an hour with a tube of soothing cream?

I also find Agatha's decision to continue going on unchecked after she /knows/ that only the continued functioning of one particularly frangible and/or stealable amulet stands between the world and the return of the Other to be self-centeredly obnoxious bordering on recklessly insane, especially now that the re-possession of her body would leave the Other in control of a functioning Castle Heterodyne.

[Thozmp]

To be fair, it isn't like anybody has the resources to get the Other out of her, or those that do aren't likely to be willing. Besides, it is kinda hard to have success at the expense of the Other when the Other isn't exactly around to take those kind of hits.

[Chuckg]

To be fair, it isn't like anybody has the resources to get the Other out of her, or those that do aren't likely to be willing.

I can't register my objections to this without mega spoilerage, so...

Spoiler: show

What you say is true, but Agatha's acting like a complete and utter self-centered twit about it: her immediate running away from Baron Wulfenbach makes sense, she 'woke up' to see him about to cut her head off. However, after being filled in on just what had happened in her absence, you'd think she'd have the sense God gave a marmot and realize /why/ he was going to do that.

Instead, she continues running off, and actually re-activates and repairs Castle Heterodyne, because its a powerful enough war machine to hold off Wulfenbach. Apparently she's uncaring of the part where a) that means its powerful enough to let the Other kill Baron Wulfenbach and destroy his forces and b) the Other will almost certainly have Castle Heterodyne at her command the instant she manages to take Agatha's body again.(*)

So, the part where you deliberately run away from the only other people capable of containing what's inside you if it ever breaks free again, and work instead to build up a powerbase that is exactly what the possessing entity within you needs to plunge the continent into a second darkness... where exactly is the 'heroic' part of this again, Agatha?

Oh, its a valid self-preservation move: even Gilgamesh would never willingly let you out of suspended animation until he was absolutely sure the Other was no longer in there, even if he had to use the Brain Corer, and Klaus would be even more ruthless about it... but the point is, aren't you supposed to be the *hero* of the piece?

Instead you're risking the entire fate of the free world on a very desperate series of gambles not to save the world (which you could do by simply /surrendering to Wulfenbach's custody/), but instead to save your own pretty pink arse.

Which is why I entirely haven't liked the direction of the plot since the denouement of the Sturmhalten arc. If you have the world's functional equivalent of Lucifer stuffed into your subconscious, and she gets free and takes you over at irregular intervals, and the only palliative against such is a very fragile single-point failure source, then you're a raving idiot for not letting other people lock you the hell up.

(*) Note that the Other's goals of slaughter and conquest are entirely in line with the Castle's own psychotic tendencies, so, its not even like Agatha can reasonably hope for the castle's AI to recognize a behavior shift and stand down. The Other acts more like a 'proper Heterodyne', according to the castle's bloodthirsty definition, than Agatha does!

[Thozmp]

Of course, if she did do as you suggest, then the comic would pretty much end there and then. As she'd either be executed on the spot, or imprisoned without any resources, add in the fact that she went voluntarily then she wouldn't try to escape or accept help escaping. Her story would be basically over and done, and if the comic continued they'd have to change the name.

[Chuckg]

Which is why I am so deeply disappointed that the Foglios chose this plot in the first place, yes. They could easily have chosen some other plot that didn't make their heroine look like the world's most selfish person, in that she'd risk planetary cataclysm out of pure self-preservation. I mean, for fark's sake, the Other's consciousness didn't *have* to go into Agatha's body for one thing...

Spoiler: show

As is, Gilgamesh's goals are 'Save Europa from the Other' and 'Save the woman I love' in that specific order of priority, and I admire and respect him for it. (And for being able to say 'Doom Europa in the name of love? That's not romantic, that's *monstrous*. You don't doom a continent full of people for anything!')

Klaus's goals are 'Stop the Other' and 'Maintain order', and I find that respectable as well, even if he is the resident ruthless pragmatist as far as methods (although the scene where he refuses to just napalm Sturmhalten is why I admire him still: ruthless LN bastard that he is, Klaus still remembers the difference between 'innocent' and 'guilty' and acts upon it as best he can, and thus, I maintain him worthy).

What are Agatha's goals? 'Stay free of anyone who might control me', 'Reclaim my inheritance', 'Keep my friends safe', and 'Revenge on those who screwed with me'. None of them are inherently evil goals, but there isn't a selfless one in the lot. Its all about her, her, her. Even the one about helping out her friends is there because, well, they're her friends. Its the closest she's gotten to an actual altruistic motive in years of publication, and its still focused very close to home, shall we say.

Addendum: There's also, as a friend of mine put it, the simple statement "If you ever get to the point of 'if [insert entirely common-sense action here] happened the story would be over prematurely', it means you screwed up somehow as an author." Indeed, isn't there a trope for that? Idiot Plot?

[Draco_Draco]

Which is why I am so deeply disappointed that the Foglios chose this plot in the first place, yes. They could easily have chosen some other plot that didn't make their heroine look like the world's most selfish person, in that she'd risk planetary cataclysm out of pure self-preservation. I mean, for fark's sake, the Other's consciousness didn't *have* to go into Agatha's body for one thing...

Spoiler: show

As is, Gilgamesh's goals are 'Save Europa from the Other' and 'Save the woman I love' in that specific order of priority, and I admire and respect him for it. (And for being able to say 'Doom Europa in the name of love? That's not romantic, that's *monstrous*. You don't doom a continent full of people for anything!')

Klaus's goals are 'Stop the Other' and 'Maintain order', and I find that respectable as well, even if he is the resident ruthless pragmatist as far as methods (although the scene where he refuses to just napalm Sturmhalten is why I admire him still: ruthless LN bastard that he is, Klaus still remembers the difference between 'innocent' and 'guilty' and acts upon it as best he can, and thus, I maintain him worthy).

What are Agatha's goals? 'Stay free of anyone who might control me', 'Reclaim my inheritance', 'Keep my friends safe', and 'Revenge on those who screwed with me'. None of them are inherently evil goals, but there isn't a selfless one in the lot. Its all about her, her, her. Even the one about helping out her friends is there because, well, they're her friends. Its the closest she's gotten to an actual altruistic motive in years of publication, and its still focused very close to home, shall we say.

Addendum: There's also, as a friend of mine put it, the simple statement "If you ever get to the point of 'if [insert entirely common-sense action here] happened the story would be over prematurely', it means you screwed up somehow as an author." Indeed, isn't there a trope for that? Idiot Plot?

Spoiler: show

Of course killing Agatha wouldn't stop the Other as the Other made a copy of her mind. On the other hand, none of the characters know this.

[doc.exe]

My own review of 'Girl Genius' is that while its an amazing story, the main character the author apparently wants me to root for? I find growing more and more unsympathetic as the plot advances further and further on, to the point where I don't even remotely like her anymore, and have enormously more admiration for certain of the more ethical antagonists.

So, fair warning, there is the possibility that by getting emotionally invested in this story, you will end up heartbroken. (Then again, many people entirely enjoy the story's current direction, unlike myself, is why I say 'possibility'. The spoiler block contains reasons as to why.)

Spoiler: show

Basically, the further the story goes on, the more our designated heroine becomes the only person in the entire saga to enjoy anything remotely resembling the sweet sweet taste of success, almost entirely at the expense of the aforementioned more ethical antagonist, i.e., Klaus von Wulfenbach, and (most galling of all) /not/ at the primary expense of the actual bloody villains of the piece, i.e., the Other and her minions.

Or, to put it more simply, if you have any sympathy at all for Baron Wulfenbach, this story is going to totally jump the shark right about the time the upgraded slaver wasp hits his trachea. Indeed, the forces of malignant coincidence are abused to literally ridiculous levels to explain why the forces of Wulfenbach are entirely neutralized from actually handling the bloody situation before it starts to get out of hand, and why its all up to Team Heterodyne and their continued reliance on... well, expecting the next plot coupon to drop into their laps, apparently. Look, if you want Agatha to be the main hero of your piece, that's entirely fine... but could you please do a slightly less obnoxious job of explaining why the rest of the available hero supply isn't available, instead of simply abusing the writer's fiat so hard that it had to withdraw to the washroom for an hour with a tube of soothing cream?

I also find Agatha's decision to continue going on unchecked after she /knows/ that only the continued functioning of one particularly frangible and/or stealable amulet stands between the world and the return of the Other to be self-centeredly obnoxious bordering on recklessly insane, especially now that the re-possession of her body would leave the Other in control of a functioning Castle Heterodyne.

Well, just for the record, I do like (and even root for) cynical and/or amoral characters. So, if the heroine is amoral or less ethical than some of the villains, that won't turn me away from liking the story. Even if I do like the villians.

What could turn me away are plot holes the size of a country, but let's tackle any that could appear until I actually read the comic.

[Chuckg]

Well, just for the record, I do like (and even root for) cynical and/or amoral characters. So, if the heroine is amoral or less ethical than some of the villains, that won't turn me away from liking the story. Even if I do like the villians.

Then you're gonna have seriously mixed feelings, because at first appearance Agatha is entirely the shining heroine and Baron Wulfenbach entirely the dark overlord of Europa.

Spoiler: show

It isn't until hundreds of strips in that it starts becoming apparent that while Klaus is the iron-fisted tyrant of the continent, the most ruthless guy in the picture when he has to be, employs some outright evil henchmen (Bangladesh DuPree, anyone?) and walks around wrapped in the appearance and the tropes of the bog-standard Dark Overlord -- he actually /does/ deeply and sincerely care about his people, that the average innocent citizen of Europa has the best life he can possibly give them (given that they live in a world where the bulk of military and thus political power inevitably concentrates in the hands of mad scientists and their robot/zombie/etc legions, that masses of common people are helpless in the face of, and thus democracy has zero chance to ever evolve given the dynamics of the Spark), he has so far proven superior to every alternative that's come along since the fall of the Heterodynes, and that pretty much his every waking moment is dedicated to protecting and serving the common folk of Europa (who know absolutely nothing about how hard he's working on their behalf and wouldn't believe a word of it if you told them...)

... while Agatha, who entirely revels in the appearance, rhetoric, and trappings of the shining idealistic pulp heroine (and to be fair, sincerely believes she actually is one), is seldom /doing/ a damn thing that isn't of direct benefit to herself or her immediate circle of friends, and the further the comic goes on, the lower that ratio gets.

I would like to believe that the author is actually trying for some tremendously subtle message as regards how 'the real heroes are spotted by what they accomplish and why they did it, not how they look or act'. Sadly, I don't think that's what's happening -- the Foglios appear to actually believe Agatha is the heroine of the tale, and Klaus an antagonist obstacle she'll have to crush on her way up.

[Stormseed]

I would like to believe that the author is actually trying for some tremendously subtle message as regards how 'the real heroes are spotted by what they accomplish and why they did it, not how they look or act'.

I thought that Gil's monologue while demolishing Vole displayed that pretty clearly.

[Chuckg]

I will not believe that the Foglios are treating Gil as a protagonist rather than antagonist until the day he is allowed to confront Agatha and be right where she is wrong, about a non-trivial issue. Which, looking at the current comic, is most definitely not today.

[Thozmp]

You know, I can't actually believe that Agatha ever actually tried to act like a hero except in a few instances, (Trying to free Othar the first time, that one bridge town) for the most part, from beginning to current comic, I get more the feeling that Agatha is a girl who got tossed into the deep end of the pool and is trying to survive;

Spoiler: show

her locket gets stolen, the Baron, more or less, "invades" her home, kills one of the few people she believes is nice to her, she gets kidnapped, treated like a madboy's eye candy, then the castle is over run by slaver wasps, she learns her heritage and IMMEDIATELY becomes a target, crash lands in the wastelands after Othar tries to kill her, and then more bad things happen.

She seems less a hero then a victim trying to get some control of her situation.

[doc.exe]

I definetely need to read it before I can judge. I will do it as long as I have more free time (unfortunately, I do have a live )

Mixed feelings? ...Not neccesarily. It depends on many factors: The way the characters are handled, their motivations and actions, their capabilities and backgrounds, the quality of the plot, etc.

Just to put an example, I actually loved most of the characters of Code Geass. I empathized with some of those that had a darker morality and were heavily punished or humilliated by Lelouch... but at the same time, I never stoped liking Lelouch. "shrugs".

[Jasruv]

Klaus, a hero?

While he does try to do the best he can for the common people of Europa, he also dissects the brains of fellow Sparks when he gets the free time. He almost did it to Othar and he strongly implied that he had done it many times previous to that occasion.

As for Agatha being selfish, she is on the run from the ruler of most of Europa. She hasn't had the resources to actually do anything for anyone other than herself and those closest to her. Part of her desire to fix up the Castle and take charge of Mechanicsburg is to have a power base to be able to tell the Baron to back off. She doesn't especially like or trust the Castle, but she needs to work with what resources are available.

Hence why she it trying to keep Tarvek alive. She knows that he can't be trusted but he may be able to provide her access to things she will require at a later date, even if that realization is only in the back of her mind. I believe that Agatha is just operating on the pure intuition of her Spark at this point as things just keep shifting too much at this point.

:o :yawn:
I've been up for almost 20 hours so I'll come back and edit this later when I've had some sleep.

[Chuckg]

OK, I think its time and past time I made a Girl Genius thread. We way off-topic now.

Unt zo...

Reply to your post is here.

(Note: that's a spoiler thread.)

[Stormseed]

*rerailing topic*

I know it was mentioned in the story, but what if Hinata's father died instead of her mother?

[KitS.AllGoode]

'Twoud be rather interesting, but I'm pretty sure Hinata's mother being dead is fanon, not established canon. (Even if I can't conceive of why she wouldn't have shown up by this point...)

[Darkandus]

'Twoud be rather interesting, but I'm pretty sure Hinata's mother being dead is fanon, not established canon. (Even if I can't conceive of why she wouldn't have shown up by this point...)

The same reason TenTen has absolutly no backstory except wanting to be like Tsunade?